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Topic  |
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Devil-Fire
Radio Wave
Canada
77 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2002 : 18:11:11
seams to me it probly wouldent be a big cable as the bottum of the oceans and i thought it was wasent able to be done by sattalites so whats the deal here?so what do You think?
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Greg Bernhardt
Radio Wave
  
USA
2001 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2002 : 18:26:40
actually underwater cable (fibre) is used  PHYSICS WORLD CUP SIGN UP: http://physicsforums.com/wc/index.asp Submit a question: http://physicsforums.com/wc/question.asp
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FZ
Gamma Wave
  
United Kingdom
2222 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2002 : 18:37:01
It be an electric cable but this was inefficient and also easily tapped by say, the Soviets, so nowadays optical fibre is taking over. And yes, they do have ships with blooming big reels of cable laying them out between the seas.------------- C:\DOS\ C:\DOS\RUN\ RUN\DOS\RUN
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theOwl
PF Mentor
 
Netherlands
1241 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2002 : 18:48:26
So these things go all the way to the bottom? How much cable is that? Why are chemists great for solving problems? They have all the solutions ;)
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Devil-Fire
Radio Wave
Canada
77 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2002 : 06:44:15
so what would happen if they got cut for whatever reason? would we but just bum out of luck for a wile? (damn squids, trying to chew everything)so what do You think?
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Greg Bernhardt
Radio Wave
  
USA
2001 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2002 : 07:32:09
I'm sure they are extremely insolated and heavy duty. Also there isn't just one line , there are many.PHYSICS WORLD CUP SIGN UP: http://physicsforums.com/wc/index.asp Submit a question: http://physicsforums.com/wc/question.asp
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schwartzchildradius999
X-Ray Wave
 
USA
1857 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2002 : 00:35:40
FZ, you post a message and I will measure the velocity of light!"Vishnu, in order to impress him, takes on his multi-armed form, and says 'Now I am become death, Destroyer of Worlds' I'm sure we all felt that, one way or another" --JROppenheimer
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FZ
Gamma Wave
  
United Kingdom
2222 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2002 : 11:30:15
Pardon?  ------------- C:\DOS\ C:\DOS\RUN\ RUN\DOS\RUN
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Zargawee
Visible Light Wave

Jordan
666 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2002 : 18:18:14
Doesn't Internet Moves Through Satelites ?
Zargawee Infrared Wave

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FZ
Gamma Wave
  
United Kingdom
2222 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2002 : 19:25:53
Well, many forms of communication are relayed through satellites but I don't think telephone/internet services are. It would strike me that the bandwidth required would be too large and too expensive for such a service. Still, I dunno. But I don't think so.------------- C:\DOS\ C:\DOS\RUN\ RUN\DOS\RUN
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Zargawee
Visible Light Wave

Jordan
666 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2002 : 02:16:27
But If Want To Link Australia With Africa ... That Would Cost You Too Much By Wires , But Wireless , Only The Satelite Will Cost You less Than Wires ! And Also You Have Know , If One Of The Wires Has ben Cut , The Whole Ocean Will be a Good Connection , And That would be a desaster For The ISP Companies !
Zargawee Infrared Wave

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FZ
Gamma Wave
  
United Kingdom
2222 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2002 : 13:54:29
Well the whole idea of the internet is a decentralised first national then international network. It was conceived in the time of the cold war as a post-apocalypic form of comunication. From x to y, there is no direct comunication line but a vast pletora of alternative routes via different systems. Machines called routers are used to select the optimum route for each connect so if, say one of the lines is broken or congested, they would immediately switch the data poackets from one to the other, preserving a connection. So Australia is not directly linked to africa, but the signal can go via asia and europe first etc. A satellite is not very suitable for this type of loose traffic. Also, apparently, multiple fibre optics lines are more reliable and sometimes faster than satellite communications. Remember, with satellite communications, your signal has to be transfered to a relay station, beamed into space, processed by the satellite and beamed down again to another station, and then transmitted by wire to the receiver. The total time taken may actually be longer. But Im not sure. Some data transmission may be carried out by satellites. For more stuff on the internet: http://www.howstuffworks.com/internet-infrastructure.htm ------------- C:\DOS\ C:\DOS\RUN\ RUN\DOS\RUN
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Tog_Neve
X-Ray Wave
 
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2002 : 15:28:34
FZ- One thing on your description. The internet was not conceived as a form of communication. It was conceived as a method for research computers to share information from one location to another. Email came about as bi-product of the exchange and became the most popular use of the newly created network.And to all- Yes the Internet is communicated from country to country by fibre as well as conductors streatched across the bottom of the oceans. There is also communications via satallite as well. It is correct in saying that communication through satellites is slower. Not much though. And bandwidth is not much of an issue anymore either. OUr sky is filled with commsats and we can pump a great deal of information up and back down again. There is not just a handful of satellites out there. There is literally thousands of sats floating around our planet. There is continued concern in our space programs about clean up in space because we have deposited so many sats in orbit. "God wants Spiritual fruit not religious nuts" - Community Fellowship Baptist Church Sign Tog Neve
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FZ
Gamma Wave
  
United Kingdom
2222 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2002 : 18:57:57
quote: One thing on your description. The internet was not conceived as a form of communication. It was conceived as a method for research computers to share information from one location to another. Email came about as bi-product of the exchange and became the most popular use of the newly created network.
Actually no. The internet was conceived by the military as a form of communication that would survive a direct nuclear attack. The idea is with a decentralised network, even if the Russian knock out large portions of the system, say with a preemptive strike, there would still be enough surviving to coordinate an american response. They could simply reroute and send the firing codes another way. However, the project received little Defense funding, and instead brought to the interest of academics and students, who made the system their own as a libertarian system of information sharing, without the threat of censureship etc. They went on to develop the system, pioneering the protocols of FTP, BBS, HTTP etc etc. But the starting idea was a military network.------------- C:\DOS\ C:\DOS\RUN\ RUN\DOS\RUN
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kuanteen
Radio Wave
Thailand
2 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2002 : 07:24:29
in thailand, we often have a really slow internet connection, resulting from the Korean-US line being broken (or so, as the information I recieve from my ISP)AMD Athlon XP 1600+ | Gigabyte GA-7VTXH+ | Samsung 256 Mb. DDR-SDRAM | nVidia GeForce 2 MX 400 64 Mb | Seagate 40 Gb 7200 rpm | US Robotics 56K. Ext Modem | LG 24x10x40 CD-RW
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Tog_Neve
X-Ray Wave
 
USA
1294 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2002 : 16:28:53
FZ - Actually you are incorrect. The Internet was not developed for the military for the purpose you had stated. The Interent was developed under the Government organization called ARPA(Advanced Research Projects Agency) Also sometimes known as DARPA (same thing just with Defense in the front of it.)The first recorded description was in 1962 By J.C.R. Licklider of MIT when he discussed his "Galactic Network" concept. Licklider was also the first head of the computer research program at ARPA. Leonard Kleinrock at MIT published his first paper and following a book on Packet switching theory in 1961 and the book in 1964. It was Kleinrock that pushed for packets instead of circuits in the networking concept. In 1965 Lawrence Roberts of MIT and Thomas Merril connected two computers together (the TX-2 in Mass and the Q-32 in Cali) using a dial up connection. The result of this did two things. Made the realization that time-shared computers could work together and that circuit switched phone lines were inadequate. In 1966 Roberts then went to ARPA to develop network concepts and begin to develop ARPANET. There was also work going on in the UK in the organization of NPL, the RAND group was also working on networking as well (primarily for the military). All of these groups were developing things pretty much in parallel and without the reasearchers knowing what the others were doing. "Packet" was adopted from the work at NPL. There is some other trivial things that happen but in 1969 the first node was placed on ARPANET at UCLA. The second notde was SRI (Stanford Research Institute). The first web page so to speak was in NLS (an early hypertext system) and was titled "Augmentation of Human Intellect". More nodes were added at UC Santa Barbara and Univ of Utah. Now the military was also getting a network developed for it as well. However the Internet grew from ARPANET and not the military network. And the idea was simply to get multiple computers to be able to share information, share workloads, and to communicate with each other. There are tons of references to this, doing a search on "History of the Internet" will net you tons of links in reference to it. One is http://www.isoc.org/internet/history/brief.shtml I knew that I-net+ course could pay off for something...LOL "God wants Spiritual fruit not religious nuts" - Community Fellowship Baptist Church Sign Tog Neve
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J-Man
Visible Light Wave

USA
744 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2002 : 00:00:54
In addition to Tog's earlier reply... the internet communicates with just about all our communication methods.1) Copper lines 2) Fiber lines 3) Satellite 4) Radio transmission - mostly microwave, but all forms are possible. Did you know ethernet was first designed to overcome the problem with communications in Hawaii? They didn't want to lay cable between the islands, so they used radio transceivers and passed the "net" through the "ether" so to speak. He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever. --Chinese proverb
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wuliheron
X-Ray Wave
 
USA
1436 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2002 : 01:01:47
I might add that the internet has even hitched a ride on the satelite beeper industry. Today's beepers can send short messages as well as give you the phone number of who called. Instint messaging services like AIM and ICQ use the same satelites.When in Trouble, When in Doubt, Run in Circles, Scream and Shout!
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megashawn
Visible Light Wave

USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2002 : 10:26:44
J-man, im not sure where you heard that, but try this out.Ethernet is simply a logical topology, specifically, IEEE 802.3. Wireless communication that you refer to is the IEEE 802.11 standard. Ethernet can be used through any number of mediums, originally on 10base5 (Thicknet) and 10base2 (Thinnet) or coaxial cable. As of recent years most ethernet topology's use CAT 5 STP or UTP (Shielded or Unsheilded twisted pair) wire. which transfers at 100 Mb/s. Ethernet is pretty much the standard. Other choices of logical topologys are Token Sharing such as token ring or token bus. These are how networks were originally setup. Using a MAU (Multistation Access Unit) which ever computer was turned on first would generate a 3 kb packet refered to as a token. As other computers connected, it informed the MAU of the MAC Address of each pc's nic card. So you at computer 1 wanted to send a message to computer 10 on your token network. You would send the message, and it would call the token, and when you recieved the token, it would transmit the date from your pc to the intended pc. The only good thing about Token is your message is certain to make it. Ethernet uses what is known as collision detection or collision avoidance, which is basically the same concept. As you want to send a msg out, it starts cramming the data out your nic card into the network. If it collides with other data, it is instantly sent out again, until it reaches its destination. Thanks to ethernet, we are able to have multiple access to net resources at any pc on the network at the same time. "Remember I got the Power to rip a driver from his Eddie Bauer at 90 mph" ---Eminem
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J-Man
Visible Light Wave

USA
744 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2002 : 21:02:29
Sorry... I mis-stated somewhat... I was thinking of "Alohanet", the transceiver based network developed about 1970 for the University of Hawaii. It used CSMA/CD, packets with a star topology (central server) and was the "basis" or "background", I've even heard it said "inspiration", for ethernet development, not the direct reason for ethernet development.Ethernet is typically attributed to PARC, Xerox & Intel from Bob Metcalfe's PhD thesis. I believe Alohanet was the first to really use CSMA/CD (at least the CD part), but I could be mistaken. He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever. --Chinese proverb
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J-Man
Visible Light Wave

USA
744 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2002 : 21:10:13
"The only good thing about Token is your message is certain to make it."Unless, of course, the ring or bus is broken (wire disconnected,) then your token "falls out onto the floor" so to speak... and the network becomes a net-not-work. Another piece of triva (one of my network professors told me btw) is that token-bus networks were developed by (I think, maybe "for" is more accurate) GM for their automobile assembly lines. Care to verify? He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever. --Chinese proverb
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