Are you a hypocrit by consuming oil or energy derived from oil?

And your taxes are paying for the armies and weapons that will ultimately end up killing civilians..

Are you not as responsible as your president?
Should you refuse to pay for the war by refusing to pay taxes?

And your brother, neighbor, child, father is in the armed forces and will take part in the war on Iraq..

Are they ultimately guilty for participating in an unjust war?

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Originally posted by Zero:
No, Kat...just you.

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A truly open mind has to be open to the possibility that a radical idea, however exciting, may prove to be a load of codswallop!

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Just me? just me what? just me a hypocrit? really? in what way?

Or is it easier to evade the hard questions?

I think if I'm using oil derived from the companies that have bad practices, such as strong arming other countries, allowing killing, war murder etc etc then yes..I carry a burden of guilt. How about you?

The other questions are harder..at least for me..aren't they for you?

Am I a hypocrit? Well, I use oil, but I don't advocate waging war to get it, and, if we ran out of oil, I would still not. Does it make me a hypocrit if I provide part of the incentive for actions that I disagree with?

Also, I use less oil than the average USAmerican does (of course, it's still much more than in many, many other countries). If everyone in the USA used as little oil as I do, I don't think that we would have much, or maybe any, need for foreign oil. Really, the only reason I use to justify using the resources that I do is that I will make a difference that will do much more good than any damage I do now.

As far as paying taxes, I don't have a job. When I do have to pay taxes, I will donate to charities as much as I can, because I don't want my money to fund the many atrocious things that our government does.

Are the people in the armed forces guilty? Yes. "Following orders" is no excuse. Those charged in the Nourembourg trial did not get that excuse. They are guilty, but I will still treat them with dignity. I will be kind to them.

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Originally posted by Kat:

quote:

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Originally posted by Zero:
No, Kat...just you.

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A truly open mind has to be open to the possibility that a radical idea, however exciting, may prove to be a load of codswallop!

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Just me? just me what? just me a hypocrit? really? in what way?

Or is it easier to evade the hard questions?

I think if I'm using oil derived from the companies that have bad practices, such as strong arming other countries, allowing killing, war murder etc etc then yes..I carry a burden of guilt. How about you?

The other questions are harder..at least for me..aren't they for you?

the Bible, in particular the historical books of the old testament, are as accurate historical documents as any that we have from antiquity and are in fact more accurate than many Egyptian, Mesopotamian, or Greek histories.
-Smithsonian Museum

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I was just teasing...

You seen that list of 'approved' oil companies? I buy from them exclusively. Plus, being anti-war, even anti-oil, doesn't make all of your obligations disappear. I still have toget to and from work, I have no choice but to drive. I've stopped shopping at WalMart, I avoid chocolate, I buy American, and I buy from local shops when possible, even when it costs me more...I do what I can.

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Originally posted by Kat:
I've never seen a list of approved oil companies and I don't see any with a quick google search..perhaps you can share?

the Bible, in particular the historical books of the old testament, are as accurate historical documents as any that we have from antiquity and are in fact more accurate than many Egyptian, Mesopotamian, or Greek histories.
-Smithsonian Museum

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I'll see if I can't hunt it down for you somewhere...

Also, why would you call anti-war protesters hypocrits, without looking at the hypocracy of the warmongers? At least the anti-war folks aren't looking to kill anyone to prove heir point? But, all of us NORMAL people are trying to follow our hearts...and that should be respected, even when we bash one government or another.

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Are you a hypocrit by consuming oil or energy derived from oil?

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No you're not a hypocrit, for the simple reason that there is no choice. There aint no H powered cars charged by nationwide network of wind-powered H cracking stations. However, I am working on an electric scooter that I call the "volt-ripper" that will charge with a normal 120 volt outlet and get me to work for free in the summer.

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Originally posted by Zero:

I'll see if I can't hunt it down for you somewhere... Thanks, I would appreciate it

Also, why would you call anti-war protesters hypocrits, without looking at the hypocracy of the warmongers? At least the anti-war folks aren't looking to kill anyone to prove heir point? But, all of us NORMAL people are trying to follow our hearts...and that should be respected, even when we bash one government or another.

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I don't respect EVERYONE's opinion, I just don't think that they all deserve my respect, I do however respect everyone's right to an opinion. The reason I posted my questions in the manner I have is that although there was strong disagreement with past wars, I really don't see that much has changed. Protestors against Oil companies manipulating other countries and gaining profit through support brutal regimes was to an extent effective when the US outlawed this practice, however there has always been a way found around this. So if the goal is to end war or to end manipulation to gain oil then why do we pretend that these methods are anything greater then only effective enough to make them a little bit more creative or a little more subtle? because it brings us comfort to think..
ok today I've done all I can do? I've done my part?
Is that enough?
Can we, should we live with ourselves while others die because we make a line in our lives that this...right here..is as far as I can go and still be comfortable?
What if for one week, one month..no one (or just many) bought oil products? what if the warriors (or just many) refused to war? what if everyone (or just many) refused to pay taxes until there were major changes in the way the money is handled?
What would happen, realisticly?

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Originally posted by Kat:
And it is about the oil....

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Oil is a motivating factor, but it is not the ultimate reason for the potential war. The ultimate reason is that Iraq is a country that is proactively hostile to the US (and other countries) and is developing weapons of mass destruction in violation of UN resolutions*. The fact that Iraq is in the middle of an important oil producing region "adds fuel to the fire" but it not a cause for war.

* Also true for North Korea, but diplomatic options have not been exhausted there yet like they have for Iraq. Plus, a military solution to North Korea is much more complicated than for Iraq.

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Are you a hypocrit by consuming oil or energy derived from oil?

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No. But it would be good to reduce our dependance on foreign oil so it's not so much of an issue.

You would be a hypocrite if you were against the war, and if the war was truly for oil only, and if you used Iraq's oil for your own benefit. But the war (potential) is not over oil.

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And your taxes are paying for the armies and weapons that will ultimately end up killing civilians..

Are you not as responsible as your president?
Should you refuse to pay for the war by refusing to pay taxes?

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Taxes are not only for war efforts, although granted, a large part are.
In this democracy, one expresses discontent through grassroots efforts, public demonstrations, and direct contact with elected leaders. These would do more to get your point across than not paying taxes.

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And your brother, neighbor, child, father is in the armed forces and will take part in the war on Iraq..

Are they ultimately guilty for participating in an unjust war?

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If the war were unjust, then they would share the blame (but less so than the leaders). But is such a war unjust? I don't have a definite answer to that...I can agree with parts of both sides of the argument.

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The ultimate reason is that Iraq is a country that is proactively hostile to the US

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When was that? Saddam has only been hostile towards Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel and Kuwait. I'd like to see some proof where he has attacked the US or is actively trying to destroy it. His missiles can't reach farther than a few of his neighbours.

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violation of UN resolutions*.

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Not that I want a war with the country, but Israel has ignored FAR MORE resolutions than Iraq. The vast majority of US's 64 vetoes has been used to bail out Israel. 64 VETOES. France has disagreed on a few issues and is branded a pariah (believe me, I'm no fan of the corrupt Chirac), yet America with its 64 vetoes is seen as the saviour of the world.

Unlike what the the original poster said before, UN resolutions aren't created by a mass Arab conspiracy. By your logic, we must attack any country not in compliance with the UN. Does that include Israel and America? We already know about Israel, but America has also ignored UN resolutions and refused to sign human rights conventions and various treaties. Recently, the Bush administration walked out of talks to enforce a biological weapons treaty because it didn't want international inspectors peeking at America's own (possibly illegal) biological weapons production facilities. We have to be consistent.

I want Saddam disarmed. But since Bush and Blair said war is the last step, why not try the best method of disarmament -- hundreds of weapons inspectors with UN peacekeepers in Iraq to search and destroy the WMDs(tm). This is preferred by majority of the world. The UN peacekeepers would be there to stop any funny business from Saddam. A war does not seem a better method than this.

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Originally posted by Phobos:

quote:

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And your brother, neighbor, child, father is in the armed forces and will take part in the war on Iraq..

Are they ultimately guilty for participating in an unjust war?

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If the war were unjust, then they would share the blame (but less so than the leaders). But is such a war unjust? I don't have a definite answer to that...I can agree with parts of both sides of the argument.

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Is there ever a war that isn't unjust?

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Originally posted by Zacarias:

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The ultimate reason is that Iraq is a country that is proactively hostile to the US

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When was that? Saddam has only been hostile towards Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel and Kuwait. I'd like to see some proof where he has attacked the US or is actively trying to destroy it. His missiles can't reach farther than a few of his neighbours.

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s'pose you could call trying to assassinate the U.S. President a hostile act? or is that a too long of a stretch? lol

Njorl

Here is a list I found a while back :

Major companies importing Middle Eastern oil (from 9/1/00- 8/31/01):
Shell 205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco 144,332,000 "
Exxon/Mobil 130,082,000 "
Marathon 117,740,000 "
Amoco 62,231,000 "

Njorl