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Originally posted by FZ:
Healing powers? Surely you don't believe in such nonsense!

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I know what you might be thinking here... but, we could remember where laser technology is coming from... namely rubylith maser/lasers.. and how lasers provide an incomparable scalpal that cauderizes as it cuts. This could be seen as a healing property of a gem... though, as you say, there are synthetic examples of gems to use in medical settings, today.

I'll interject here now and point out that in early times the only really vivid colour available to the people was the colour of gems. Pigments had not been developed very far nor on a large scale of production so, when a gem was seen it was an extremely rare exposure to a pure colour.

Edit: then I thought about it and realized that quite often the gathering places of the Aztec, Egyptians, Olmec, Hindu and other peoples were highly pigmented with murals and large blocks of colour. The sphynx was painted in the most garish of blues and gold and red. Also, those not in the "gathering place" crowd died their garments and adorned them with mirrors and rhinestones in a fashion after some of the elite people they may have seen or heard of.

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Originally posted by FZ:
Maybe about that colour point. Purple was on of the most difficult colours to obtain in ancient times, and that thus gained a connection with power. Anything that set you apart from the masses, really.
In modern medicine, the use of lasers is generally limited. Gamma rays from thermionic emmission from certain metal filaments are used instead more often. Modern lasers also often use different techniques than gemstones.

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True, however initial research into laser technology was done using a gemstone oriented technique and that is where it started and it has contributed to the medical use of lasers... it carried with it the potential that we see today... therefore there is evidence that points to a medical or "healing" attribute of gems.

What is much less concrete is the claim that certain stones or gems hold a quality that can enhance attributes in a persons personality or that can help to "calm" or "see" or "fix the cervical vertibrae" or "stomache problems"... etc....

As an experiment I'd ask anyone here to go out and buy a Carnielian (sp?) Agate. They cost about 1 dollar (cnd)
If you have noticed in your way of dealing with life that you are a procrastinator... then the alleged attributes of the Carnielian Agate should alleviate that condition of procrastination.

Carry it with you all day in your watch pocket or somewhere... always on your person... for around 2 weeks and then make note of whether or not your condition of procrastination has lessened or not. If you like you can post your results here... but... finding out for yourself might be interesting!

I have to EDIT here and remind anyone who read my expose of Fabber Biren's findings with colour psychology and colour therapy in the Cancer thread of the Other Sciences topic that his research also serves to prove that gems, of many colours, will work as medicial agents. Biren's colour studies are unprecidented, unduplicated and worthy of much praise.

BTW, the experiment you described is not scientific, since knowing about the gem can have a psychological effect. Instead secretly put the jewel with one of your relatives, and ask an impartial theird person to identify which one. This would be a proper double blind test.
I've tried this, and as expected, the results were negative. But no one cares because they WANT to believe.

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Originally posted by FZ:
But Biren's findings are unvalidated, and unsupported, and thus for now viewed with extreme caution...

BTW, the experiment you described is not scientific, since knowing about the gem can have a psychological effect. Instead secretly put the jewel with one of your relatives, and ask an impartial theird person to identify which one. This would be a proper double blind test.
I've tried this, and as expected, the results were negative. But no one cares because they WANT to believe.

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As with a good snake oil sales man, a good Gypsy sells the power as well as the object to the client. FZ, I think you might make a lousy Gypsy!

But, that is a good set up for the clinical trial. I should try it.

BTW, Gypsy is derived from the word Egyptian... who else would know how to better handle (and pawn off) a gem?

Clever co-incidence. An etymological check shows there is no connection.

Remember that it must be a third person with no idea of the setup etc that makes the final decision. If it works try www.randi.org and ask for the million dollar challenge....

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Originally posted by FZ:
http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-gyp1.htm

Clever co-incidence. An etymological check shows there is no connection.

Remember that it must be a third person with no idea of the setup etc that makes the final decision. If it works try www.randi.org and ask for the million dollar challenge....

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I'll do that... by the way... in this statement:

"Incidentally, the word gypsy or gipsy itself was given to itinerants in Britain when they arrived from continental Europe in the sixteenth century; the word is a contracted form of Egyptian by a process called aphesis. It was thought that the people came from Egypt but they really have their origin in north-western India. Their language can be traced back to Hindi, Punjabi and Sanskrit roots, "

there is lacking any proof that roaming psuedoEgyptians didn't pass through NorthWestern India aprez leaving Egypt and before heading on to land in continental Europe (and the UK) to the benefit of Quazimoto.

Jade has long been a treasured semi-precious gem or stone.

The peoples of the Northwest Coast and interior of NAmerica have long used it as a material to make tools. They'd spend 6 months or more grinding it into shapes that served as Ads and Axes as well as figurines and decorative buttons etc... They had to spend so much time working it because it is around "7" on the scale of hardness where diamonds are at a "10".

The Jade of the West Coast of NA is not actually Jade but is Nephrite... a less pure form of Jade... probably due to the NW proximity to the impact area of a large asteriod that hit earth 64 million years ago... forming the Gulf of Mexico and spewing large amounts of Iron and crustal materials over a wide range of surrounding lands. A quick study of Mexican Jade will show an even less stable Nephrite of even less purity when compared to BC (British Columbian) Jade.

Chinese Jade is considered the most pure... and it is evident in its clarity and in many cases it has absolutely transparent qualities.

There are stories that come with Jade that may or may not be true... stories that claim Jade as the protecting gem.

There's one story or myth that says Kings or Queens used to have Jade cups to drink from. This was because if someone had poisoned their drink... the Jade cup would crack when the liquid was poured into it... warning the Monarch of the failed attempt on their life.

A recent story I was told by a man from China related a time when a friend of his fell over a cliff. He wore a Jade bracelet. It seems the fall should have killed him yet he was left unscathed... not a scratch... but his Jade bracelet had disappeared... assumedly shattered into many pieces.

These sorts of claims suggest that Jade has a property that absorbs negative chi...(energy) directed at an otherwise unassuming person. Jade's hardness may have to do with this mysterious quality.

I think to arrive at a considerably acceptable conclusion about any properties that are claimed concerning a gem or stone one should closely examine the various mineral contents of each stone... and the curcumstances surrounding each story or each claim of certain "healing" or "protecting" or "guiding" properties of each stone.

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Originally posted by voyeur:
First off, only some gems are expensive because they are rare. Diamonds in general are not rare. The supply is controlled by DeBeers to keep the price/value high. They are able to do this because diamonds aren't found in many places, they are plentiful where they are found though. If all the diamonds that are posessed by the mines were sold, the quantity would swamp the market and make them essentially worthless, except maybe for the rare varieties of diamond which include colored and flawless. Another thing that affects price is demand. High demand for a less rare gem will make it more expensive than low demand for a rare gem. The physical qualities of a type of gem affect price as well.

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Voyeur, that seems to be the standard wisdom about certain gems... like diamonds. But, I wonder about the worth of any gem or precious metal during times of extreme hardship.

When an economy has completely broken down... like in Rome when the Hoards of Huns or whoever it was invaded and completely and literally wiped out the Roman Empire. What use was gold to those leftover Romans or to those broken, once stately families of the Romans?

They couldn't eat gold. They couldn't buy anything with it since, if they revealed that they had gold to the barbarians, the barbarians would simply take it... and kill them. How has the value of gold survived? Or, has it only (relatively) recently been propped back up... say over the last 1000 years? Who propped up the value... in this scenario?

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When an economy has completely broken down... like in Rome when the Hoards of Huns or whoever it was invaded and completely and literally wiped out the Roman Empire. What use was gold to those leftover Romans or to those broken, once stately families of the Romans?

They couldn't eat gold. They couldn't buy anything with it since, if they revealed that they had gold to the barbarians, the barbarians would simply take it... and kill them. How has the value of gold survived? Or, has it only (relatively) recently been propped back up... say over the last 1000 years? Who propped up the value... in this scenario?

carl

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Ironicly, gold has its greatest value in situations like you just described. When society is strong, credit, or the word of the government, is more valueble than gold. As society reaches the verge of collapse gold becomes more valueble. The rich Roman can take his gold and sail away to Constantinople. He can't take his land, his livestock, his house, but he can take his gold. True, if he waits too long, he's Hun meat.

Njorl

What made gold so popular in 1898 and slightly beforehand when
the "gold rush" was in full swing? What drove the motive that in turn
drove so many to near insanity or.... "gold fever"? Was there an economy
on the brink or was it something else? The whole affair did certainly create
an economy of some substanciality.

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Originally posted by FZ:
I think it was rather the allure of "get rich quick" rather than the attraction of the metal itself (though there was a literal medical gold fever from the mercury they used in purifing gold.) The success were magnified beyond all sense and the large number of failures suppressed. There seemed to be resources to be exploited, and as the government condoned, who were the people to argue. Parallels drawn with East India Company with the Brit Empire?

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I'm not sure who the East India Company is. It sounds like the Hudson Bay Company from 16??. This was a company who capitalized on the interest in furs from northern Canada. Top hats being all the rage in London et al. And hence forth introduced the European way of seeing to the Inuit and many other nations between the atlantic and the pacific.

Get quick rich. Yes. I've heard that about the mercural purification of gold. But.... there were these guys that would haul a piano over the Chilkoot Pass or White Pass... I've seen these passes and their wilder than any one can imagine... steep and most killer.

Anyway, they hauled these pianos up these slopes to make the grade with the laws about entry to the country. I am imagining both American and Canadian police and immigration officals would have monitored this lunacy.

Please expand on the Eastern India Company and the Brits?

The British East India Company was another Royal Charter like the Gentlemen Adventurers of Hudson's Bay. Actually responsible, in large part, for beginning the British Raj in India.

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Originally posted by voyeur:
Gold is very attractive. It has some amazing properties, which is part of what makes it prized. It is relatively inert, doesn't tarnish like silver. It is one of only a couple of metals with a color other than silver. It is incredibly malleable, a chunk the size of a piece of bubble gum can be beaten into gold leaf to the size of a football field.

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I know of approximately 2.4 billion children that would pick bubble gum over gold at the drop of a hackie sack.